Category talk:Ninningers
Ninninger names found! *'AkaNinger': *'AoNinger': *'KiNinger': *'ShiroNinger': *'MomoNinger': Joker-Man (talk) 23:24, January 18, 2015 (UTC) : dude it's already been revealed! Pat141elite (talk) 00:52, January 19, 2015 (UTC) ::Yeah, that's been known, and on the wiki, since Christmas. :::Not to mention that the names you put in are links to existing pages.... ::::But we do have the bios for the main five Ninningers now: http://news.tokunation.com/2015/01/18/shuriken-sentai-ninninger-character-bios-online-24072 ::::Well, I did this because no one put in the kanji for their names. Joker-Man (talk) 04:39, January 24, 2015 (UTC) Why are Yoshitaka and Tsumuji not Rangers? How are Yoshitaka and Tsumuji not part of the Ninningers? They both wear ranger outfits, participate in the roll call, and persist this behaviour over the course of two episodes of the main series. Compare this to ToQger's Conductor or Luna from the the upcoming Ninnin Boys vs. Girls FINAL WARS. They fufill the first two, but only exist in post series V-Cinema. An additional point of contention is their Akaninger powers. While they all use the designation of "Akaninger", their NinShurikens are clearly not the same, as they use alternate kanji to Takaharu's, regardless of the source of their power. Does a ranger's powerset only belong to one person at a time? Does As far as I know this hasn't been touched on in Super Sentai previously. It is clear that this wiki needs to either include these two as part of the team, or update its policy on what a ranger is. Multiple people have tried to edit this page and this confusion needs to be cleared up. Tynus (talk) 03:20, February 10, 2016 (UTC) :It's abundantly clear why they are not listed as such - they are ALLIES who transform in a one-off occurrence to fight against Gengetsu Kibaoni. In 46 other episodes, they neither transform nor take part in the roll call. This includes the final episode, where it is apparent they no longer possess the ability to do that when they absolutely could have (in Tsumuji's case). In the upcoming V-Cinema, it is clearly seen from released images that Tsumuji does not transform then either (But could, as the End Shuriken restored the transformation ability taken away from the core team and not seen to be taken from Tsumiji). Clearly the intent as established by the show is that they are NOT part of the team, but allies who simply helped out. Conductor, in ToQger's V-Cinema, counts as a ranger because he transformed and fought alongside the team and, at the end, retains the ability to do so. He does not become a ranger until that time, however - similarly, Yoshitaka always had the ability to transform (without a Shuriken, as he did not use one to do so) but did not for essentially the length of the series (versus Conductor, who had no such means to do so). Tsumuji did not have his Nintality, and thus could not have either - for the same length of time. Were we to include Yoshitaka and Tsumuji as rangers would negate their status as allies as defined by the series itself. And the show trumps all. Luna, as a character, did not even exist in the continuity of the show (unless the V-Cinema is established as canon) because she wasn't seen in the show itself. In fact, what likely becomes her Shuriken does not appear until the finale. Since she doesn't exist as a character until the V-Cinema, that argument does not apply to her. Therefore, since Yoshitaka and Tsumuji are defined by the show as allies, they are not counted as rangers. However, their transformation is acknowledged on their respective pages since those events did occur. Additionally, they are all "AkaNinger", a title not surrendered by Takaharu - who did not pass on his powers. As his father and grandfather they can be (and probably were intended to be) "previous AkaNingers". We cannot list them as AkaNinger because that's Takaharu the entire time. With respect to Conductor's status, as compared to Yoshitaka and Tsumuji, you also have to factor in the events of the ToQger V-Cinema. Everyone had moved on to new positions, with Wagon as the new Conductor. Conductor's becoming ToQ 7gou is his counterpart to that action. :I would caution you against telling us what this wiki "needs" to do, unless you want a vacation from editing it. Inquiring why we do not consider them rangers is acceptable - telling us what to do is not. ::I have some issues with some of the reasons you mentioned, considering some of the other sentai team pages contradict and are inconsistent with your aforementioned reasons (as well as a couple related questions about sentai team pages in general). Here are some I noticed: ::*X1 Mask lost his powers in the same episode he joined the team, and he is listed on the Maskmen page. You could argue he always had his powers prior to the series up until his debut and maybe even used them off-screen, but he's still a one-off. How is this situation different to Yoshitaka's considering they both had powers prior to fighting alongside the team and lost their powers/died in the same episode they did? ::*On the Turborangers page, Ken'ichi Yamada is listed as a temporary Turboranger. Shouldn't it be "Youhei Hama > Ken'ichi Yamada > Youhei Hama" since he used the exact same morpher and powers as Youhei? ::*On the GoGoFive page, both Demon Hunter and Kyoko are listed as 'Other Heroes'. Much like X1 Mask, he had his powers prior to the series up until his debut, but he's also still one-off. Kyoko, who was an ally for the entire series is listed, and yet no one worries that her ally status was negated? I see no reason why she shouldn't fall into the same category as Yoshitaka and Tsumji when talking about negating ally status. ::*On the Abarangers page, Emiri is listed as AbarePink under the section 'Allies'. This is quite vague and possibly misleading, cause people who haven't watched the series may think she was a temporary ally or an actual legitimate ranger at some point. ::*On the Dekarangers page, Swan Shiratori is listed under the earth branch of Dekarangers, despite only transforming once in the series. Likes some others I have mentioned, she had her powers prior to the series and an ally for the entire series. Now I know she is indeed earth branch, but that section can be sub-divided further. ::*On the Shinkengers page, both Takeru and Kaoru are listed as Shinken Red in the same line. I'm assuming you did this cause, based on the events of Gokaiger she eventually got her own seperate Shinken Red powers. But in that case, shouldn't they be on seperate lines as Shinken Red (eg. 16 predecessors > Masataka Shiba > Kaoru Shiba > Takeru Shiba) and Princess Shinken Red? We can add a citation note stating that Karou was the true head and Takeru was a kagemusha. ::*On the Akibarangers page, Masako Yamada is listed as a temporary Akibaranger, which is pretty much the same case as the temporary blue turboranger. ::In the case of Ninninger, Yoshitaka probably had the ability to transform all along, and although we only saw him transform once, he is still a ninninger. ::As for Tsumiji, he didn't fight the final battle cause he was clearly too wounded to fight. As for the movie, we don't know yet. I can only assume that he realized that even though he has his powers back, after years without training, his body is too frail to fight. When you consider that, and his over-protectiveness and over-focus on Fuuka he may even be considered a liability to the team. Or it could be that he gave his ichibantou to Luna. I doubt Yoshitaka left behind anything we hadn't already seen after Tsumiji searched the entire dojo. And I doubt someone commissioned Tetsunosuke to make another one, which would explain why Midoninger seemingly lacks any nin-shuriken (in particular, goton shuriken) and arsenal other than the midoninger shuriken and ichibantou. Of course this is all my speculation, but point is Tsumuji does in fact retain the ability to transform is he chooses to. Could it be possible just to add a smaller section like some of the other sentai team pages? ::Now, just so you don't get the wrong idea, I'm not telling you to add them back to page (or do anything for that matter). I am simply here to asking for an explanation for this inconsistency and (if, when and how you're gonna fix it), as this inconsistency is clearly creating confusion among some users.--DuelMaster93 (talk) 09:26, February 10, 2016 (UTC) :::The tone of a post is what makes a difference between an inquiry and what one "must" do. But since you asked... :::X1 Mask: Having not seen Maskman personally, I'm going to depend on those who edited the page as having seen it. The X1 Mask powers were a prototype for what would become the 6th Ranger of today. For reasons unbeknownst to me personally, they were lost after a single episode due to the nature of those temporary powers. This counts as being a ranger because he was using his own power set. :::With respect to "Youhei Hama > Ken'ichi Yamada > Youhei Hama", you have to consider whether Youhei lost his powers or whether they were temporarily taken over. I have not seen this either, so it would fall onto someone who has. Something like that may well be wrong, but I cannot "fix" that because I don't know that to be true. :::Kyoko from GoGoFive: She's still an ally. Her status didn't change when she took over the Demon Hunter powers, as GoGoFive does not have a Sixth. She actually wanted to join the team but, if I remember correctly, she was told no. :::AbarePink: Never had powers. Ever. Emiri only had a costume and pretended to be an Abaranger, This is why she is listed as she is. "AbarePink" by her name is the name she referred to herself as. This is correct as listed. She IS an ally, however. Her Ally type is Civilian (and this should be changed if the page suggests otherwise). :::DekaSwan: Swan is a ranger. She only transformed once because it was her policy to only do so once. She absolutely COULD have transformed more if she wanted to. Gokaiger further clarified this by giving Swan her own ranger key. Only rangers and extra heroes got ranger keys. :::Shinken Reds: The reason we did it is because neither Kaoru nor Takeru gave up their powers to the other. While they never transformed simultaneously, they could very well have done so. Kaoru had her own Shodophone before she even appeared, and was never shown surrendering it to Takeru. Takeru, likewise, is never seen surrendering his Shodophone to Kaoru when she makes her appearance. Gokaiger takes this a step further by giving Kaoru and Takeru their own ranger keys, respectively. While I personally don't think it's necessary for them to have done that (because of duplication), I can see why - the fact that the two Reds did not pass on their powers. :::Masako Yamada: Transformed during an imaginary sequence into AkibaYellow using her daughter's powers. Did not actually take over those powers, and thus nothing to surrender back to her daughter. Correct as listed. Likely a case of a flashback (or would-be flashback) to possibly a previous user of those powers, but nonetheless did not replace her daughter. :::Yoshitaka: Probably did have the means of transforming all along, however he was not shown to be able to do so until Shinobi 45. The events of Shinobi 46 pretty much ended any hope of learning any further about this. Since we report only facts, we cannot say he was always able to do it without some form of proof that he always could, as opposed to something gained by the entire family fighting together. Thus the only applicable status is his ally status, with a temporary transformation. Similar, but yet very different, to AbarePink's situation. :::Tsumuji: Did not transform until Shinobi 45 because he didn't have his Nintality. Could have transformed again in 46 and 47 but did not. As much as we know about the forthcoming V-Cinema, does not transform there despite being a couple of years down the line and thus very much able to do so. Clearly intended to be a one-off transformation, using a Shuriken that was purified only when the family was gathered. Going an entire show without transforming, gaining the ability to do so, only doing so once, and then never doing so again is the show showing us that the intent was only for a one-off transformation. They weren't even considered Rangers to the point of even giving them names - any terminology to the contrary you may see elsewhere is just fan-given names. During the roll call, was referred to as Tsumuji. At least similar "rangers" were given proper names and such. Which is more than can be said here and for Yoshitaka. Thus the only proper classification is as allies, with the acknowledgement that they do transform - for all of one episode into the next. :::In short, you need only look at the context of each to see how and why they are classified the way they are on RangerWiki. People can argue about these until the end of time, but without solid evidence to the contrary that's all these will ever be. There is absolutely no need for anyone to come here, guns blazing, demanding that anyone be classified a different way because they view otherwise and telling us what we need to do. We do not tolerate that, and we have blocked people for doing so before. This does not mean we can't be wrong, but it also means that we don't cater to the whims of individuals who disagree with us solely on the premise of their disagreement. ::::Thankyou for taking your time to answer my enquiries. I am not trying to demand anything, just inquiring about inconsistencies I noticed and some suggestions for some, but in no way am I telling anyone what needs to be done. If you had legitimate reasons for all the inconsistencies I would be happy if no changes were made. ::::Anyway, moving on from that, here are my final thoughts on each case: ::::For X1 Mask, i'm not asking to remove him from the page, but perhaps you can categorize him as "Other Maskmen" like some of the other sentai team pages. The reason for this is the team was formed after he left Sugata's unit. According to him, X1 mask is their predecessor (also his powers are not temporary, he had them eversince before the series and kept them even after he left. he just sacrificed them when he first fought alongside the other maskmen). And he never officially joined the team. Only reason he fought alongside them (all be it very briefly) cause he was attacked when he was with Takeru. Simply put, since he only appeared in one episode, he is the only sixth ranger not to join the team cause he lost his powers before he was able do so. I know sixth rangers are almost never put in their own category unless they are apart of their own sub-team (such as go-on wings) but given the circumstances and the fact he's considered a prototype and not an official sixth ranger, I think it's worth considering. ::::For Kyoko, I think you may be confused. She is listed under "Other Heroes" (with the Zeek written in a gold border preceding her name) and not under allies. Going by the same logic you have for the two Akaningers, putting her under "Other Heroes" would negate her ally status. When you consider the reasons you stated yourself of her not joining the team and role not changing, shouldn't she be removed from that section and placed into allies? ::::For Emiri, please look at the Abaranger page as you may be confused. She is listed under allies with 'AbarePink' in a pink border preceding her name. There is no citation note stating that the AbarePink powers aren't real. If her powers aren't real, I see no need to put 'AbarePink' in front of her name. ::::Fair enough for the rest I suppose, but I do believe that Tsumuji did have a legitimate reason for not transforming again in episode 46 and 47, and may need to revisit this discussion if he has a legitimate reason in the v-cinema movie also. Also, one could also argue that DekaSwan was intended to be a one-off as well, despite having the means to transform all season, but at this point it's pointless to continue. ::::Anyway, once again thanks for answering my inquiries and hope you consider my suggestions (and at which point I reiterate are simply suggestions and not demands) and understand my perspective regarding inconsistencies.--DuelMaster93 (talk) 16:04, February 10, 2016 (UTC) :::::In X1 Mask's case, the team may have formed after he left the unit, making him their predecessor - but that in turn makes him a Maskman just like them, as one who came before. Therefore he is listed correctly, even though his circumstances are different. :::::Kyoko is under "Other Heroes" because her powers are not similar to GoGoFive's suits, transformation sequence, etc. Technically speaking she is still an Ally, but one who took on additional powers. Tsumuji and Yoshitaka gained powers on a temporary basis, Kyoko took on the powers "full-time". She could be moved to Allies, but it would have the same meaning - having her where she is symbolizes shes more than just a human ally. She has powers as well. :::::Emiri is another similar case - if you go to Emiri's page, it clearly states the powers aren't real. So you're just looking at the wrong place. The reason 'AbarePink' is listed is because she created that identity for herself, and is the representation on that page of that identity, even though she has no real powers. :::::We can and likely will revisit Tsumuji should the V-Cinema state further details about him transforming, but because we do not post speculation we have to go off what we are given at the current time. And for now, that means he is a one-off ally transforming. DekaSwan would be different than him, because she always had her powers - she opted not to use them. That alone makes her a different situation and not a one-off. Tsumuji didn't even have them, regardless of whether or not he'd use them. :::::Ultimately, these "inconsistencies" are not an issue, rather you have to understand the logic and context of the specific heroes in question. Sometimes Toei makes it clear, sometimes it does not. But ultimately it comes down to we cannot post speculation, there has to be a stated fact, or sufficient supporting details to state such a claim. But by no means should you not question something you do not understand - discussions like this are what help you understand why we classify things the way we do, and depending on the facts could bring about a change where warranted. But when editors like Tynus said what the wiki "needs" to do - no, it is what he would like to see the wiki do. Saying it needs to do something is making a demand, which doesn't help anyone's case. If you have any further questions about specific characters, I'd bring those up on their respective pages to keep things separate and avoid lengthy walls of text. Appearances Add this in Appearances: * Doubutsu Sentai Zyuohger Super Animal War Cellogeek20 (talk) 16:47, August 16, 2016 (UTC)